14 best men s rock climbing shoes

Men's rock climbing shoes are specialized footwear designed to provide the necessary grip, support, and sensitivity for rock climbing activities. These shoes are a critical piece of equipment for climbers, as they directly impact performance and safety. Here are key aspects related to men's rock climbing shoes:

Design and Features:

  1. Tight Fit: Climbing shoes are designed to have a snug fit, ensuring maximum contact between the foot and the climbing surface. This tight fit enhances precision and control during climbs.

  2. Rubber Soles: The soles of climbing shoes are made from high-friction rubber to provide excellent grip on various rock surfaces. The type of rubber used can vary between different brands and models.

  3. Downturned Shape: Many climbing shoes have a downturned or cambered shape, where the sole curves downward towards the toe. This design enhances the climber's ability to use small footholds and edges.

  4. Closure Systems: Climbing shoes may have different closure systems, including lace-up, Velcro straps, or slip-on designs. The choice of closure system often depends on personal preference and the type of climbing activity.

Types of Climbing Shoes:

  1. Neutral Shoes: These are suitable for beginners and all-day climbing. They have a flatter profile and are more comfortable for extended wear.

  2. Moderate Shoes: Designed for a balance between comfort and performance, moderate shoes often have a slight downturn and are suitable for a variety of climbing styles.

  3. Aggressive Shoes: These shoes have a pronounced downturn and are designed for advanced climbers tackling steep or overhanging routes.They provide maximum precision on small footholds.

Sizing Considerations:

  1. Snug Fit: Climbing shoes are typically sized smaller than regular shoes to achieve a snug fit. This is important for sensitivity and control during climbs.

  2. Comfort vs. Performance: Climbers often balance between a comfortable fit and a performance-oriented tight fit. This choice depends on the climber's experience level and the type of climbing they do.

Outdoor Use:

  1. Versatility: Climbing shoes are used for a variety of outdoor climbing activities, including bouldering, sport climbing, trad climbing, and more.

  2. Terrain Specificity: The choice of climbing shoe may vary based on the type of rock and terrain encountered during a climb.

Maintenance:

  1. Resoling: As the rubber on climbing shoes wears down over time, some climbers opt to have their shoes resoled to extend their lifespan.

  2. Cleaning: Regular cleaning is essential to maintain the performance of climbing shoes, as dirt and oils can affect the rubber's grip.

In summary, men's rock climbing shoes are specialized footwear designed to meet the unique demands of climbing activities. The choice of climbing shoe depends on factors such as the climber's skill level, climbing style, and personal preferences.

Below you can find our editor's choice of the best men s rock climbing shoes on the market
  

Five Ten Gambit VCS

adidas

Based on 166 reviews Check latest price

Product description

  • The Gambit VCS from Five Ten® blends easy comfort and technical precision for a reliable climbing shoe.
  • Designed for comfort on long routes, trad climbing, slab climbing, gym climbing, and beginner to intermediate rock climbers.
  • Leather upper with minimal stretch.
  • Hook-and-loop closure for easy adjustability.
  • Perforated Ariaprene tongue helps keep your feet cool.
  • Rounded toe box.
  • Breathable cotton lining.
  • Molded thermoplastic midsole for stiffness.
  • Stealth® C4™ 4.2mm rubber outsole combined friction and durability for incredible all-around performance on any surface.
  • Made in the U.S.A.
  • Measurements:
    • Weight: 10 oz
  • Product measurements were taken using size 12, width D - Medium. Please note that measurements may vary by size.
  • Weight of footwear is based on a single item, not a pair.

  • Rubber sole
  • IMPORTANT SIZING INFO: These fit small, consider ordering 1 full size up or a range to find your fit

La Sportiva Men's TarantuLace Performance Rock Climbing Shoe

La Sportiva

Based on 597 reviews Check latest price
  • FAST LACING SYSTEM - Quick-pull lacing harness allows for precise regulation of inner volumes; Wrapping the foot snugly for excellent support, fit, and comfort
  • ALL-AROUND PERFORMANCE - Designed to help intermediate climbers smear, hook, and edge like pros; The aggressive rubber heel rand, sticky FriXion RS rubber soles, and low-asymmetry RN45 build let climbers find purchase on edges with great sensitivity and without pain or cramping
  • CLIMB IN COMFORT - From the gym to the crags, the classic unlined leather upper is soft and comfortable; Lined tongue controls moisture and enhances breathability; Synthetic leather overlay adds just the right level of support
  • BUILT TO LAST - This indoor/outdoor climbing shoe is constructed from high quality materials; 1.8mm LaspoFlex at the midsole and 5mm FriXion RS at the sole make the TarantuLace as stable as it is durable
  • TIPS FOR BUYING - Rock climbing shoes are designed to fit differently than other footwear; Be sure to reference the La Sportiva size chart in the product images for more accurate sizing; The fit should be tight, but not painful, and without pressure points

User questions & answers

Question: I usually wear 45 EU size, and i see here people say the sizing is too high and other say its too small. So which size should I buy
Answer: I normally wear a 44 EU (10 US) and I bought them that size. I wish I would have gotten a half size smaller (43 or 42 EU) because they do run a little big.
Question: Are these for pros
Answer: I wouldn't call them pro shoes, but they are great shoes in general. The rubber is not very hard and not very soft, and the shoe is not down-turned, so it's a great shoe for beginner or mid-level climbers to climb with a variety of styles.
Question: Why does the size chart differ from other sources
Answer: La Sportiva shoes generally use the euro sizing chart and tend to run big. I would suggest going down a full size from other climbing shoes on the market. I normally wear 8 to 8.5 in other climbing shoes but La Sportiva I wear 7 to 7.5. You can always buy several pairs and return the ones that don't fit. I hope this info helps you with making a buying decision.
Question: I wear size 8 u.s. should i get the same size in rock climbing shoes? or one size bigger? or half size smaller
Answer: Hi There, Climbing shoes are designed to fit tight, almost like a second skin. If you are new to climbing, a comfortable fit is most important. I would recommend going a half size down from your street shoe. In all honesty, I would order a couple of different sizes and return the ones that do not fit. You are looking for a very snug fit that does not hurt your foot. Please be aware that these shoes will stretch around a half of a size over time, so remember to size accordingly. I hope this helps!

Product features

The Peak of Comfort & Versatility

The TarantuLace is an unlined leather climbing shoe with asymmetric shape for advanced performance. The shape is great for upper end performance without hurting your toes. The synthetic leather lacing harness adds great support for entry to mid level climbers and the unlined leather is comfortable and soft. The aggressive rubber heel rand lets you stand in micro edges and the FriXion RS rubber is hard wearing yet sticky. This is great shoe for climbers that need a one-quiver shoe to do it all.

Black Diamond Momentum Lace Climbing Shoe - Men's

Black Diamond Equipment

Product description

Black Diamond steps into another realm of of the climbing world with their Momentum Lace Climbing Shoe. This shoe is all the quality you've come to expect from Black Diamond rolled up into a shoe. With its 4.3mm rubber that provides consistent grip and its breathable woven upper, the Momentum Shoe gives you exactly what you need to reach the peak. PRODUCT FEATURES:

  • Rubber
  • Lace-Up closure
  • Black Diamond Equipment: Designing and constructing the world's best climbing, skiing & mountain gear since 1957

User questions & answers

Question: How is the sizing in these shoes , should I go a size up or down
Answer: My street size is 11.5. I tried these shoes 13.0 and it was still too small (and there's no larger size) and very painful.
Question: How do these fit on long and narrow feet? Thanks
Answer: Very well. They are a tough fit on wide feet.
Question: Are these womens or mens
Answer: Men’s
Question: is the sizing for these identical to the sizing for the velcro model
Answer: It’s very close. I think you’ll be ok if you do the same size. Hope that helps!

Five Ten Men's Asym VCS Climbing Shoe

Based on 9 reviews Check latest price

Product description

  • The versatile Five Ten® Asym VCS climbing shoe is ideal for beginners seeking reliable performance and also for advanced climbers looking for long-lasting comfort.
  • Leather upper conforms to the foot.
  • Asymmetrical hook-and-loop closure for easy adjustability and a secure fit.
  • Unlined interior for a lighter weight feel and a roomier fit.
  • Features a moderate downturn and a medium-stiff midsole that allows for easy technical moves.
  • Stealth® C4™ rubber outsole combined friction and durability for incredible all-around performance on any surface.
  • Imported.
  • Measurements:
    • Weight: 10 oz
  • Product measurements were taken using size 12, width D - Medium. Please note that measurements may vary by size.
  • Weight of footwear is based on a single item, not a pair.

  • Rubber sole
  • Versatile shoes for sport climbing and bouldering
  • Regular fit
  • Asymmetrical hook-and-loop closure system
  • Unlined leather upper
  • Textile lining; Stealth C4 rubber outsole for unbeatable grip

La Sportiva Men's Finale Climbing Shoe

La Sportiva

Product description

One day you'll be crushing like the best of them, but until then, learn the art of sending in the La Sportiva Men's Finale Climbing Shoe. This beginner-styled shoe features La Sportiva's long-lasting P3 Permanent Power Platform to keep you climbing in this pair for seasons. Its tensioned heel rand and power hinge ensures a high-end edging performance that legendary climbers could appreciate. The Vibram XS Edge sole is La Sportiva's go-to rubber, for even the most aggressive climbing shoes, and the LaspoFlex midsole is neither too soft nor too stiff, but juuuuust right.

  • Lace-Up closure
  • Excellent for all-day comfort and reliable performance, the Finale is a lace-up rock shoe that is equally at home in the gym or the crag.
  • Unlined leather upper for a soft, comfortable fit
  • Tensioned heel rand and powerhinge for high-end edging performance
  • 5mm Vibram XS Edge sticky rubber outsole

User questions & answers

Question: I normally wear a women’s size 8, what size should I get these in
Answer: Hello, I recommend getting a women's 7.5 - they will stretch a half size. Best, Gear Coop

Speedo Men's Water Shoe Surfknit Pro

Speedo

Based on 19 reviews Check latest price
  • Made in USA or Imported
  • Rubber sole
  • Surf Knit upper is engineered to offer the ultimate support, breathability and comfort where you need it most
  • Totally hydrophobic rubber EVA insole
  • S-TRAC designed outsole disperses water and provides improved performance

User questions & answers

Question: What is the exact weight of these shoes? I'm considering these as water & camp shoes for backpacking, so I am looking for the *exact* weight in oz
Answer: I don't know the weight but they are very light, featherweight if compared to my New Balance running shoes. I used them at the beach and walking around the condo grounds and they did fine. Not sure how they'd hold up in rougher terrain like rocks and sticks as the soles are thin and might pierce easily.

Product features

Men's Surf Knit Water Shoe

Experience the barefoot-like comfort of this hydrophobic water shoe designed to keep feet dry. Innovative Surf Knit technology delivers a breathable, lightweight upper and a comfortable insole that minimizes water absorption. The S-Trac outsole manages water flow, creating a no-slip grip for workouts in the water or on land.

Superior Knit Technology

Flexible, breathable, quick drying knit offers 360° ventilation and extended comfort.

Breathable Mesh

Designed with breathable mesh for enhanced airflow.

S-Trac Outsole

S- Trac designed outsole disperses water and provides improved performance.

Black Diamond Momentum Lace Climbing Shoe - Men's

Black Diamond

Based on 269 reviews Check latest price

Product description

Black Diamond steps into another realm of of the climbing world with their Momentum Lace Climbing Shoe. This shoe is all the quality you've come to expect from Black Diamond rolled up into a shoe. With its 4.3mm rubber that provides consistent grip and its breathable woven upper, the Momentum Shoe gives you exactly what you need to reach the peak. PRODUCT FEATURES:

  • lace-up closure
  • Neutral, flat last for vertical climbing and all-day comfort
  • Engineered Knit Technology upper provides exceptional breathability and comfort
  • 4.3mm NeoFriction rubber is built for durability and molded for optimal consistency and performance
  • Medium flex midsole adds support without sacrificing sesitivity
  • Lace entry for fit adjustability

User questions & answers

Question: How do these fit on long and narrow feet? Thanks
Answer: Men’s
Question: What size should I get if my shoe size is a
Answer: It’s very close. I think you’ll be ok if you do the same size. Hope that helps!
Question: Are these womens or mens
Answer: No im US 10 and this style fits me like 11
Question: is the sizing for these identical to the sizing for the velcro model
Answer: I don’t know exactly but those shoes are very very light !!!

Climb X Rave Strap Climbing Shoe 2019

Based on 427 reviews Check latest price

Product description

A great all around comfortable shoe that is precise enough for your next gym session. Features double stitch construction, padded collar and heel, polypropylene midsole and one-piece binding. Size up for a comfort fit and size down for a more aggressive performance fit but keep in mind that climbing shoes are supposed to fit very tight and at a minimum your toes should be touching the end of the shoe. Your toes will be curled a bit if you buy a size down for a more performance fit. The shoes come pre downsized! We recommend for new climbers to go up a FULL size from their street shoe size.

  • Please refer to the Sizing Chart for Recommended Size.
  • Padded Collar and Heel for Comfort.

User questions & answers

Question: My toes dont touch the tip of the toe area.. its short by 0.5 inches.. are they too big for me? should i downsize 0.5? from a 9.5 to
Answer: They are a pair of shoes.
Question: Can you walk in these shoes
Answer: No, they are leather on top
Question: do you get a pair of shoes or do I order
Answer: I normally wear a 44 EU (10 US) and I bought them that size. I wish I would have gotten a half size smaller (43 or 42 EU) because they do run a little big.
Question: Are these vegan
Answer: I wouldn't call them pro shoes, but they are great shoes in general. The rubber is not very hard and not very soft, and the shoe is not down-turned, so it's a great shoe for beginner or mid-level climbers to climb with a variety of styles.

Tenaya Oasi Rock Climbing Shoe

Tenaya

Based on 30 reviews Check latest price
  • 100% Synthetic
  • Vibram sole
  • ASCENT & PROGRESSION - Founded in 1997 by Yosemite vet Jose Luis Garcia Gallego, Tenaya is famous for designs that blend performance and comfort without sacrifice; Tenayas are worn by pro climbers worldwide, like Chris Sharma, Alex Megos, and Ramon Julian, and have helped advance the sport on championship and record-breaking ascents
  • TENAYA OASI - One of the most aggressive shoes in the unisex Tenaya line, the Oasi is for every kind of foothold; The design and construction techniques have resulted in a shoe of amazing precision in all kinds of difficult situations
  • AGGRESSIVE & CUSTOM - The Oasi is ultimately versatile, shining on vertical or overhanging routes and all kinds of bouldering; It’s incredibly comfortable for such a high performance curved shoe; Aggressively curved shape and the angle of the toe-box and allow the heel to sit lower, providing greater feel and control; Patented Draxtor closure system allows optimal adjustment over different parts of the shoe and custom comfort for any type of foot shape
  • TECHNICAL SPECS - Uppers: Microfibre; Closure System: Velcro, patented Draxtor PAT system; Tongue: Lycra, two-layer and bidirectional; Lining: TXT treated cotton; Insole: 2D multi-layer Stretchtex; Midsole: Double midsole GI 1.8 & TST 150; Sole: Vibram XS Grip 3.5 mm; Weigh: 340 gr; 100% Vegan; Designed and Handmade in Spain
  • TIPS FOR SIZING - Climbing shoes fit differently with every brand and each unique model; Personal preference of tightness (based on climbing style, terrain, and comfort) is the biggest factor in determining the optimal shoe size; To start, Tenaya recommends downsizing 0-0.5 sizes from your US street shoe size for an all day fit and 0.5-1 sizes for a performance fit; Tenayas are constructed with synthetic materials designed to limit stretch, making sizing more predictable and consistent

User questions & answers

Question: This listing says it's for the Tarifa, a lace-up shoe, but I see pictures for both the Tarifa AND the Oasi. Which do I get if I pick the Oasi pic
Answer: If you haven't climbed on the Oasi before expect very soft rubber. It's great for being able to feel with your feet but can take some getting used to as the shoe doesn't protect your toes like other, harder rubber shoes. Happy climbing to you as well!
Question: What is the fitting like? Would you go a half size up
Answer: It just depends on the fit you are trying to achieve. These shoes are a more aggressive shoe, with velcro(meant to be taken off fast). So an aggressive fit, either a half size below to a full size might be the best fit. Just remember, you don't want to be in tears climbing, but an aggressive fit will help with short powerful climbing.
Question: Are these the Oasi or the Tarifa being sold here? Thanks
Answer: Oasi
Question: are these sizes US or UK
Answer: Uk

Evolv Nighthawk Climbing Shoe - Men's

Evolv

Based on 73 reviews Check latest price

Product description

Evolv's latest and greatest all-rounder. The Evolv Nighthawk is built on an updated last that fits all climbers from beginners to advanced.

  • Upper Material: leather (overlays) synthetic
  • Lining: Agion anti-odor formula
  • Closure: lace
  • Midsole: MX-P (1.4mm, full-length)
  • Rubber: Trax SAS high-friction rubber (4.2mm)

User questions & answers

Question: Is the size much smaller than street shoes
Answer: Please check out the comments on the Amazon page about sizing from others who have purchased these shoes. Also, you can search the web for, "Evolv Shkyhawk fit," and find information about fitment. In our experience, people usually tend to choose a size up from their street shoe size.
Question: I wear a 42.5 EU, can you tell me what size I would order in this shoe
Answer: Hi there! The shoes are blue (the tongue and some other detailing), light pink (the bulk of the shoe), and white (detailing)

SCARPA Origin Climbing Shoe-U

Scarpa

Based on 45 reviews Check latest price

Product description

The starting point in our climbing career is of fundamental importance. It gives rise to the genetic building blocks that shape our climbing lives. The origin offers a lush leather upper, giving a feeling of a padded luxury that is rarely found in a shoe aimed at encouraging people to start climbing. The flat profile and relatively relaxed randing ease the climber's feet into a cocoon of comfort. The hook-and-loop closure keeps the foot snug and well positioned during use. The origin introduces scarpa's vision rubber, a proprietary compound that is both sticky and resilient to all the conditions that new climbers feet will experience.

Innovation and tradition share equally deep roots at SCARPA, a muti-generational, family-owned business whose headquarters and manufacturing facilities are in the same region of northern Italy where it was founded in 1938. SCARPA builds performance footwear for climbing, hiking, skiing, mountaineering, trail-running and other outdoor pursuits. Aside from being the Italian word for "shoe," SCARPA is an acronym for Societa Calzaturiera Asolana Riunita Pedemontana Anonima (Associated Shoe Manufacturing Company of the Asolo Mountain Area).

  • 100% Leather
  • Imported
  • Rubber sole
  • Passive randing offers classic performance
  • Scarpa's proprietary vision rubber
  • Flat lasted construction delivers all-day comfort and performance
  • Dual power strap closure allows for maximum adjustability

User questions & answers

Question: im a size 37 in la sportiva skwama. what size should i get for these? thanks
Answer: If you wear a size 37 in the La Sportive climbing shoe, then the recommendation is to go with the size 37 for a Scarpa climbing shoe.
Question: how do these stretch out over time
Answer: Not well unless you wear them in the shower to stretch them but you do risk busting the stitching
Question: Hi. i'm a beginner at rock climbing. i'm size 37 and i bought 37 for this pair of shoes. but, my toes hurt like hell. should i order half size up
Answer: I'm a beginner also, so you may want to take this with a grain of salt. I'd go up a size leaning towards comfort. If mine hurt that much they may hold me back by not wanting to put them on. Mine started very tight and after a dozen sessions are stretched and are super comfortable now. Have a good one :)
Question: wear a size 11 what size should I get ? do they run small of big
Answer: Hard to say. If you wear a size 11 regular shoe. Prob go a half to a full size smaller on a climbing shoe.

Black Diamond Momentum Climbing Shoe - Men's

Black Diamond Equipment

Product description

Designed to provide unparalleled comfort for all day cragging and gym sessions, the Momentum is a two-strap Velcro shoe that combines innovative technology with a classic, flat-last design to create an entry-level shoe that excels in performance. With an upper fabric that consists entirely of our Engineered Knit Technology, the Momentum provides stretch where you need it, support where it matters and all around exceptional breathability. We've also added a micro-fiber liner to the front of the shoe to minimize stretch and maximize comfort. The Momentum's durable, NeoFriction rubber is unique in that it's molded-inspired by the way we forge our carabiners-versus cut from one sheet of rubber. This is our engineered solution to optimize our shoe's rubber and rands for weight, consistency and comfort. Built for all-day comfort on moderate routes, boulders or gym sessions, the Momentum features a soft-flex midsole for sensitivity and is the perfect entry level climbing shoe.

  • Rubber
  • Black Diamond Equipment: Designing and constructing the world's best climbing, skiing & mountain gear since 1957

User questions & answers

Question: Looking to buy a shoe for my girlfriend and she wears a size 5 in kids for her converse. Would a size 6 or 6.5 climbing shoe fit her
Answer: Depends on homuch you are going to be wearing them if you are going to the gym or out in the open. And if you are an entry level climber or a more advanced climber
Question: Would these shoes be good to climb a 8 ft wooden wall for law enforcement qualifications
Answer: If that’s you’re street shoe. I’d say get these about a half size smaller cause they do stretch quite a bit once they are worn in. I wish I would of gone down a size cause I ended up progressing past the point of what these shoes could handle very quickly because they became so loose at my heel I lost confidence on foot holds.
Question: what is the life span of these climbing shoes
Answer: These are women's sizes and run small.
Question: im new to this sport, im imm a size 11 us in lets say adidas, what size should i go for in rockclimbing shoes
Answer: I have two pairs. One black, one forest. I don't know if they are technically waterproof, but mine have gotten wet and I just wipe them off and they are fine. The blacks are one of my favorite shoes of all time.

La Sportiva Solution Climbing Shoe - Men's

La Sportiva

Product description

The Men's Solution Climbing Shoe is La Sportiva's most popular answer to difficult boulder problems and steep sport routes. Drastically downturned, this shoe is one of the best for overhangs, scummy heel hooks, greasy smears, and microscopic edges. La Sportiva's revered P3 Power Platform was first developed specifically for this shoe, and it retains the shoe's aggressive downturn until after you blow through the rubber. A shoe this technical deserves its own special rubber compound, and it's one of the few out there to feature Vibram's XS Grip2 rubber, which is extremely stiff around the toe box and soft, supple, and thin at the heel and arch. With more flexibility at the heel, the Solution bends to your will when you're toeing off-angled footholds and high-stepping the top-out.This Solution has a modernly refined, 3D-shaped heel cup that keeps a solid fit no matter how scummy that heel hook feels. The Lock Harness System wraps the leather upper snugly around your foot for a customized feel that stretches only slightly, and the Lorica tongue adds subtle padded cushioning and ventilation. The Solution might sport the speediest closure out of any climbing shoe; its Fast Lacing System uses one hook-and-loop strap that cinches three separate sections for a snug fit that's ready to go on-and-off after each boulder attempt.

  • Upper Material: leather, Lorica
  • Lining: [toe box, arch] HF
  • Closure: hook-and-loop, Face Lacing System
  • Midsole: [toe] LaspoFlex (1.1mm)
  • Rubber: Vibram XS Grip2 (4mm)

User questions & answers

Question: how much will it stretch
Answer: Im my experience, about half of an EU size - give or take a little. Humidity and environment seem to matter. It has been very humid here. More stretch.

Evolv Defy Climbing Shoe - Men's

Evolv

Based on 95 reviews Check latest price

Product description

The classic Evolv Defy gets a major upgrade for 2017. Not only does it have a fresh new look, but features an improved, more anatomical fit. The new high quality upper material, Synthratek VX, offers a soft but secure fit.

  • Is Discontinued By Manufacturer :
  • Product Dimensions :
  • Department :
  • Date First Available :
  • Manufacturer :
  • ASIN :

User questions & answers

Question: Looking for a strongman truck pulling shoe I saw other competitors but never tried, would these shoes give me extra grip for a truck pull event
Answer: they definitely will give you great traction, however they aren't really made for walking around on the ground
Question: I've been seeing different size-up suggestions between .5 to 2 sizes up. I know they should be tight. What size should I get
Answer: I got 1/2 smaller than my street show size. When you put it on, it should be almost unbearable to walk but the shoe will expand over time. Now it's the perfect comfort size after 10+ hours of use.
Question: I wear 6.5 womens size. What size should I buy this men' size shoes
Answer: If 6.5 is your street size, 5 or 5.5 depending if you want an extra snug fit. It would be wise to get the female shoes in a half size down for the sake of simplicity. Cheers!
Question: I dont understand what the D stands for in the sizes... I wear a women's 7.5 - what size should I buy
Answer: I think D is average and M is medium. If you typically wear medium on other shoes, then I would go with your regular shoe size. A lot of climbing shoes are sized erratically but I found these ones to be to represent my own size (I got half a size larger than normal and they are comfortable and get the job done, but I would have liked them to be more snug almost a little uncomfortable to give more confidence on the rock)

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